April 14, 2013
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An Open Letter To All Persons of Faith- Whatever Faith It May Be
Let your faith comfort you when Life is difficult. I am truly glad for you.
Myself, I am an agnostic. I was raised Christian, Methodist to be precise, and keep the core ethics of Christianity. I believe it is possible there might exist Gods and/or Goddesses, Angels and Demons, but have not had any great revelation of that as fact. I used to call myself an atheist, but have come to realize that is putting myself on the God-like plane of KNOWING. And I am definitely not a God; I am a mere mortal, looking for answers. My scientific mind looks not just for theories and ideas, but proof. I try to learn all I can about all faiths, and respect the beliefs of all. I believe people of all faiths are trying, in their own language and belief system, to recognize and understand the same Divine and Supernatural forces of Good and Evil, and their influences on Mankind.
Do they exist as actual entities that Christianity calls God and Satan, or merely as forces within Humankind’s own heart? That is a question we must each answer for ourselves, and I am glad to hear what you think or believe.
Comments (104)
I am the same on this. I was raised Southern Baptist. They no longer claim me since I told them I was agnostic and I think all religions are on the right track for the most part. Every religion has it’s fanatics so they can’t say so-and-so’s religion is evil because so-and-so’s group of people did this or that. It’s just one group that’s apart of a huge one. lol that would be saying the crazies that say the drown their children because of a demon in them or because God told them to. It’s just a crazy person who someone had a religous discussion with and they took it way past the sanity line.
I try to be cautious and curious about other religions. who’s to say theirs might not be for me or who am I to judge and say they are wrong. I have no idea, which is the correct religion and by my thought they are all correct since they all pretty much teach the same beliefs. Good vs. Evil.
I have more thoughts but it’ll take me ages to write them.
I was raised all sorts of christian, and as much as I sometimes doubt christianity, deep down I got the fear of god running in my veins. I pray almost every night, feel ridiculous, but eh, Id feel bad if i didnt. I know I, end the end, believe, because whenever I sin/… I feel the fear.
I used to believe that I believed in god for comfort when I was about 13, called myself an athiest… then realized I was scared shitless from denouncing god, prayed my ass off and havent been down that road scince. I guess I believe wiether I want to or not.
God is a personality, a being who stands alone… and we as humans are created in His image.
He is a personal God, and omnipresent.
That’s what I believe.
I too love seeing what others believe and feel.
I was raised a Christian (non-denominational). A preachers kid to be exact. I was taught about Heaven & Hell and was told to uphold everything in the Bible. When I was younger I believed everything I read as fact. It wasn’t until I started getting older that I started to dobut. Being in ministry I’m subjected to all the hardships and I’ve seen how vicious people truly are. You wouldn’t even believe me when I told you how many people came into my church with alterior motives. Because of such people I became disgusted. I decided I needed to figure out what I believe on my own. I actually really got into Wicca to be honest. I know it seems like I went from one extreme to the next, but Wicca really isn’t what people believe it to be. Anyway I wasn’t really feeling anything the way I had when I was a child. I realized I was angry that God had not intervened when these people proclaimed to be false prophets or tried to take over in ministry. I was upset that he had not prevented my grandmother from getting Liver Cancer and passing away. I was angry and hurt and I had no where to turn. At this point in my life I am still a Christian. I believe in Heaven & Hell. As for believing everything as much as I did when I was a child, well, it’s going to take some time.
Great post, I throughly enjoyed this. =]
@msausten - Thank you for reading. It is my pleasure to meet you.
I have no comment on the ‘God’ thing. Whenever I ask someone about him, I get a different answer … so I’m more than just a little suspicious. However, Satan has spoken to me about you. I think he’s interested. Perhaps you ought to expect him.
@stories_for_girls - Satan spoke to you about little old me? Cool. Elaborate, if you will. As I said, I respect all belief systems, and am glad to hear everyone’s point of view.
@lonelywanderer2 - In a general sense, he has. He is, and has always been, particulary fond of nonbelievers. Being one myself, he stops in to chat frequently. He says it is because I prefer African Red Bush tea like he does, but I rather suspect he actually seeks me out for companionship. Still too shy to make a move though. I’ll give him time. That much he deserves. I’d expect a visit … as you know, he gets around.
Everything happened for a reason, everyone created for a reason too.
@stories_for_girls - I love the way you think, and I like your style. You seem a very bright and classy lady. And I’ll look for that visit; I think I make him nervous, I’ve been known to say half-jokingly, “As long as we’re going to Hell, it’s nice the scenery is so pretty along the way”.
@RestlessButterfly - Thank you for reading my thoughts and sharing yours. I look forward to getting to know you.
@lonelywanderer2 - No problem, your post is worth for reading, very deep thinking kind of writing.
I used to be agnostic.. But now I’m atheist.
You have atheism pegged wrong. Most atheists don’t claim to “KNOW” God doesn’t exist. They usually don’t believe in God because there is no evidence that points to a God. I can understand where you might get that confused. I think a lot of people do, but talk to any good atheist, which is most of them and they will say “I can’t disprove the existence of God, but it’s highly unlikely due to lack of evidence”. Most atheists would also tell you that if good, genuine proof for the existence of God ever popped up, they would be the first to convert.
That’s all atheism stands for. You can be an atheist and believe in any number of other things.
Agnostic is just a fancy way of saying Neutral or Apathetic. Which means you pretty much don’t have an opinion one way or the other. A lot of modern Christians are sort of semi-agnostic, they believe in God and some aspect of their religion but not all of it. In other words they aren’t true Christian’s. True Christians believe everything in the bible word for word. Most of us call them fanatics, but if you think about it, they are what a Christian should be.
@ALovingAdversary - Your definition of a fanatical religious person is probably based on the society you live in. If you talk to most religious scholars of any given religion they will tell you that you can’t just pick and choose what you want to believe from their religion. But that’s what a lot of people these days do. This has been happening throughout time as society goes along. For instance the bible condones owning slaves, but today our society doesn’t. So we change that rule and decide not to believe in that piece of that religion. Same is true with homosexuals and so on. Eventually we’re going to get to a point where society gets advanced enough that it doesn’t agree with anything in these ancient texts. Even the concept of an all powerful creator that watches your every move will seem a little silly. This is exactly where atheists are at today. No religion can prove anything, so why follow any of it? Because it makes us feel good? Why do we need that religion to make us feel good, why can’t we just live our life and be happy with what we have and all the wonderful things we can learn about the universe without being tied down and checking all our thoughts against some religious bias to see if it “fits” with what a given religion already says.
Most religions were built off of peoples fear of the unknown. They provide answers, but they don’t provide any proof for those answers.
As for Good and Evil. Honestly, those are relative terms. Good and Evil are defined by a society and the individuals in it. You can look back on the history of humanity and see how our perception of good and evil has changed. At one point it was ok to kill people for sport, no one deemed this “evil”. Our modern morals (and definitons of good and evil) have really stemmed from what works best for a given society and group of people. What we consider humane and moral these days is really based on many more factors then just religious texts.
@wolvenchic - You’re fear of “what if I’m wrong” is what keeps a lot of people believing. But at some point you have to start asking questions and coming to terms with certain thoughts. Religions are smart in that they know fear is a huge motivation for people. To the reverse they also know that salvation (or reward) is another huge motivation.
But ask yourself these questions
1. Why would an all powerful, all knowing, all LOVING God, who knows the entire course of my life and every choice I will ever make, even create me to begin with if I was ultmately destined for hell? Why would he, she, it, do that to anyone?
2. Why would this God give me five senses, reason and logic with which I need and have been proven are needed to navigate life, but then tell me the only thing I need to do to get into heaven is just to blindly believe he exists and to do so without using any of the senses he’s given me, and completely defy all that is logical and reasonable to do so.
You start to get the picture that none of it makes much sense at all and was obviously created in a less advanced time by people who didn’t know even a fraction of what we know about the world and the universe today.
But you got one thing right, you can’t force yourself to believe anything. Whether you believe or you don’t believe is almost a little out of your control. I could say I really want to believe in God, but something in the back of my mind says it’s all B.S. and that stops me from truely believing. For other people, it’s the other way around.
@roxics - Thank you for your thoughts, and the rec. I mean that sincerely, and respect what you think and believe. But, here are the definitions of “Agnostic” from Answers.com
I’m not confused. Alot of study of many religions, (particularly Christianity, Judaism and Islam) and thought has gone into my belief system, and is still going on.
One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
<li><li> One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.<li> One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.
adj.
<li> Relating to or being an agnostic.<li> Doubtful or noncommittal:
“Though
I am agnostic on what terms to use, I have no doubt that human infants
come with an enormous ‘acquisitiveness’ for discovering patterns”
(William H. Calvin).[A– + GNOSTIC.] Added by lonelywanderer2: The prefix “A” means without. “Gnostic” means knowledge from “gnosis” which means knowing.
I also have a pretty thorough education in words and their history.
@lonelywanderer2 - I understand the definitions. They are extreme definitions. But you have to understand how they relate to our culture today. There are atheists who all out don’t believe in a God. But as said, any good atheist won’t define themselves that way. Because just as their is no proof for, there is always a possibility, given we find the right evidence. But so far that evidence hasn’t presented itself in the history of mankind. So you could say that most atheists are 99.9% sure there is no god.
So yes, you’re right about the actual dictionary definitions, but in the real world it usually goes a little differently. The lines blur. The difference can sometimes be very little. I usually define it like this. An atheist takes more of a stance, an agnostic doesn’t. Simple enough to understand when I tell it to people that way.
I can’t say I’m of a certain religion, although I do believe in God. Who’s God? Mine…the one I believe in, he seems to differ within everyone and different religions have their versions also. I have faith and I hold on to it dearly. I believe there’s a Satan… Much the same as I believe there’s an opposite to everything, there’s a negative to a positive, light to dark, day to night, right to wrong…. Or at least that’s my logic. I was raised Catholic, but as I got older, I realized I don’t agree with everything I was taught to believe in. But like I said, I believe in God. I have faith. I also respect everyone else’s version of faith or not having any, or anyone’s need to have proof.
@roxics - i completely disagree with your logic about Christianity (for the most part) but i respect your opinion and (in a sense) can see why you would feel that way. i have always thought that agnostic simply meant that you did not commit to anything. you weren’t christian, atheist, hindu, muslim so on so forth. not any religion at all. you still were open to searching for the truth and you just didn’t claim anything 100%, you just don’t know. i always thought that atheist meant that you were solid in you belief that there is not a God. Of my atheist AND agnostic friends, they seem to have the same definitions of their “faith”. its not that the Bible “condones” slavery. the bible was written in a different time, culture, etc. that is what went on back then. its simply describing the scenery. sure there are laws etc in reference to slavery but that is what was going on, it never says that everyone should own slaves. just like if you read a book, or watch a certain movie in which there is something like murder, or slavery, or whatever else you consider to be wrong. that doesn’t mean that movie is a commercial for that wrong thing. it just means its part of the plot. i do agree with you about different societys having different ideas of right and wrong though. i do believe for the most part that your society will determine these things for the most part. although, i do believe that there are certain things that most people of all different societys consider wrong. and certain things that they consider right. i agree that to an extent that a lot of Christians kind of just accept parts of the bible they like, or don’t mind and reject the rest. i disagree with the slavery bit. i accept the Bible as a whole. i think you just have to realize that some things in the bible are based on the society it was written in and doesn’t necessarily apply to us. and other things are meant for us all and it goes beyond time or location. but of the things that are not written in JUST a “context” sense, i try my best to follow. do i like or love all of it? No. but i do believe that God has a plan that is bigger than mine.
i really enjoyed this blog, its a great message.
Personally, I am a Christian (non-denominational). I believe in the word of God (the Bible) i believe in God the father, Christ the son, and the Holy Spirit. i believe that the Son died for my sins as well as everyone who has every lived, or ever will live. I believe he saves. i think that my live would be worse without him. but i don’t think that living a true Christian life is easy, quite the opposite, its hard. but if you stick with it, i believe it will definitely be worth it in the end. i have issues with the “views” of a lot of other Christians. it seems they forgot that they weren’t “always” saved. the forget that part. and start acting self righteous, like they did it all on their own, and if someones opinions, views, faith, etc. differs from their own that they are somehow less than them and said people need their “loving” “saving”. my opinion is you simply live your life the way you should and the way your faith tells you, you should live it. i don’t think you should HIDE your faith, or never witness to anyone. but i think people should stop being so ‘in your face’ and extreme about it. live your life the right way, be a living example, and it will show. share with people your faith and what you are going through, your God, AS WELL as your life. what else is going on. just share and talk with people, be there for people, be YOU. I too respect people who have other beliefs and i don’t mind hearing what those beliefs are.
*rec*
I think there is a Creator. There has to be otherwise we wouldn’t have been created, unless it was by accident and the odds are highly against such an accident.
As for religions and studying them and choosing the right way to go, history is the way to go. Its all in history. Things in religion today (like God being good and Satan being bad? the good god bad god thing was originally practiced by the religion of the ancient babylonians and from there got added or pushed over to other religions even ones not yet in existence at the time. According to the Bible studied in its original text, Satan is supposed to have been one of the messengers of God, and has done good and isnt like this evil devil dude [i'm not sure if it says so in english though, have to check]) but yeah, if you try to trace stuff back, get past all the funny religion stuff on the side, and try to hit the truth of things, its not so hard to formulate your own decision on which way to go, i don’t think. its kind of a lot of work, though lol like a big giant sherlock holmes mystery or something.
I highly recommend the book ‘Mere Christianity’ by C.S. Lewis. It’s not scientific proof of anything, of course, but he explains why Christianity makes sense to him, from a fairly secular perspective.
It’s very provocative, at the least. I am a Christian, so I’m partial towards believing it, but it really did make a lot of sense to me.
@roxics - As I said, I admire your ability to explain your way of expressing yourself. We have much in common. I don’t think I’m slighting either of us when I say that.
@JakeRippy - I will absolutely read it; thank youi.
@TakingxOverxMe - Thanks for reading. I guess we all look for answers on our own.
@RighteousThang - You make very good points; thanks for reading.
@Xx_Kittt_xX - You make most of the same points I do. Share your experience and try to help others, and respect their beliefs. Thanks for reading my post. Nice to meet you.
@Xx_Kittt_xX - Just to give you some background, I was raised a catholic and believed in God till I was in my mid twenties. I’ve also read the bible. Not stating that to say I know more then anyone or anything like that. Just that I am familiar with the church and the bible and the things that go with it.
That said.
It doesn’t work that way. By changing any aspect of the bible you are changing the whole. You can’t pick and choose and say “those rules for those times”. If God is the all powerufl creator of the universe, he would have laid it out very clearly.
When you start picking and choosing what you want to believe based on the times you live in, you’re basically stating that everything in that religion is up for question. If the bible was in fact written by God, then none of it is up for question. If you question it, you’re going against God’s will. I don’t see any wiggle room there for your own interpritations. Neither do the fanatical Christians.
To some degree I have to respect the fanatics. They are at least following their religion as it was spelled out. No matter how crazy we think that is today.
The moderate Christians who make up the majority are the ones who are confused. They pick and choose what aspects of thir religion they want to believe and they do it on the basis of what their society deems acceptable at that time. Which in other words means that if a big enough group of people get together, then God will change to fit their views rather then the other way around.
The universal truths that the bible speaks of, existed long before the bible was even created. So linking them to the Christian God is the same as linking them to any God. So then what makes the Christian God special?
@JakeRippy - that is one of my favorite books of all time. it really is a great book.
@lonelywanderer2 - thank you
The existence of God is OBVIOUS. Ignoring it would only be the beginning of the greatest damage we could ever do to ourselves. That is simply because God is in no need of anything. He is the One Who shows His greatness in all things and in all ways. God is the owner of everything, from the heavens to the earth. We learn the attributes of God from the Qur’an:
God! There is no god but Him, the Living, the Self-Sustaining. He is not subject to drowsiness or sleep. Everything in the heavens and the earth belongs to Him. Who can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is before them and what is behind them but they cannot grasp any of His knowledge save what He wills. His Footstool encompasses the heavens and the earth and their preservation does not tire Him. He is the Most High, the Magnificent. The Holy Qur’an, Chapter 2, Verse 255.
@lonelywanderer2 - Thanks. But I should probably point out that the entire reason I was even defining the difference between the two is pretty simple. Where an agnostic will claim “I don’t know” that usually comes with what you said above about respecting people’s beliefs.
This is the problem atheists have and why they take a stance. When you respect everyone’s beliefs you are giving them a free ticket. You are basically telling them that what they believe is perfectly valid compared to anything else. But the reality is, it’s not.
You can’t say to someone “I respect your belief in an invisible leader who tells you homosexuality and stem cell research is wrong, even though all the physical evidence suggests otherwise”. It would be no different then someone coming up to you and saying “my imaginary friend says you shouldn’t be driving your car on Sunday, because that’s his holiday”. Are you going to say “well I don’t know if he exists or not, so I respect your belief, I’ll let you go make a law about it”?
No you probably wouldn’t, you’d look at them like they are crazy and say “hey if you don’t want to drive your car on Sunday, that’s up to you, but trying to make a law to stop me from driving mine, I don’t think so”. That’s exactly what’s happening, but just because the numbers go from one to millions, doesn’t change the fact that unless they provide evidence for this “law-giver” it shouldn’t even be tolerated. Why go around pretending their beliefs are valid and deserve equal stance when clearly it’s not valid at all?
Well I think and believe what a believer in Christ believes, which is a trinitarian view of God and Christ the only redemption for “humankind”. But I would ask you a question– you acknowledged that you were raised a Christian, a Methodist.. then became an atheist and finally an agnostic.. Do you think your child or someone other not yet initiated in the beliefs of the world would come to be believe exactly what you believe (not knowing) or would they successively generate or degenerate into believe there is no God or worse? After all, we are a product of environment… therefore since you are on level other than what your parents are on, what would be the outcome of your influence on the suceeding generation?
My parents…my dad was a non-believer, my mom claimed Christianity, but never attended. I encourage my children to study and think, and decide for themselves, but to always respect others, and be good to all people.
@roxics - Well said, but who determines what or who is the “Christian God”. For the Christian, there is only one God that that ever existed. Most religions accept that God, whether its Brahma or Yaweh or smthn else. Christianity just provides a definition for that God in the Trinitarian form. So invitably, there is nothing “special” other than the greatness of that God which Jews acknowledge, Hindus acknowledge, Muslims acknowledge, Zorastrians and pagans acknowledge, but the two other persons of the Trinity play a significant part in the speciality of what/who is the “Christian God”.
Oh boy. That is the MOTHER of all questions. I’m not sure I can answer, but I’ll do my best. I grew up in a Christian home, but I pulled the mother of all prodigal daughters and basically said eff you to God. About a year and a half ago, I came back to my faith. To sum up what I believe would take all night, and while I’m completely cool with writing that, I think the comment box has a maximum of how much I could fit in it, and it would be torturous to make you read all that I could write. So here is what I’m supposed to believe:
There is one God, forever present in three forms: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Because Adam and Eve were the biggest twits on the face of the planet, Jesus, The Son, was sent to this earth in human form to die a brutally torturous death on a cross, one that you or I would never be able to comprehend. Because Jesus died in my place, all I have to do is believe this in my heart and I will spend eternity in heaven instead of going to hell and suffering for all of eternity.
I hope you caught the last sentence of my first paragraph. Particularly the word “supposed”. Do I believe everything I wrote in that last paragraph? Absolutely. Here is where I’m going to catch flak from all the Christians. @roxics - I included you in this because you are part of the reason I’m questioning everything I believe in. I sat here and read the questions you asked another commenter for close to an hour. To be honest, I could give you the pat Christian answers. I know them by heart. But they sound empty to me. I’m supposed to WANT to argue with you, to prove you wrong, to prove that there is a God, and that I believe in the right one. But the simple fact of the matter is I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to do so. None, zero, zilch, nada. You get the idea. So I don’t know what the hell I am. Its not that I’m afraid to go head to head with you. I’ve learned people are going to disagree with me, no matter how much I argue with them. Call it thick skin, call it stubbornness, call it whatever the hell you feel like calling it, it doesn’t really matter to me. I just simply don’t want to argue with you or anybody else for that matter.
The thing that scares the crap out of me is I simply don’t want to. I have no desire whatsoever to defend what I believe. I’m not even sure I believe what I believe. Does that make any sense to anyone? If so, help me out here, because I’m lost. Other religions won’t work for me. I’ve tried, trust me. They are NOT all the same. I KNOW there is a God. Don’t ask me how the hell I know because I just do. I can’t explain it any more than I could explain quantum physics. But I’m having trouble believing the rest of it. I’m so effing confused right now, its not even funny. Okay I’m gunna end now. Have a good night.
@roxics - you HAVE to interpret it. God doesn’t mind our questions. i believe that he is big enough to handle them and help us in our beliefs. but i mean, i get what you are saying. i agree, to an extent. but there are just certain things you have to interpret. so you think in order to be a Christian, no one should have tattoos or get piercings, men shouldn’t cut their beards and women have to be practically COMPLETELY covered. that during the time of a womens menstrual cycle she shouldn’t be allowed to leave her home and should go through a period of “cleansing” because of it??? i don’t agree, neither do a lot of bible scholars who have studied the bible for years. there are some things in the bible that the people in the bible were writing to CERTAIN people or certain groups of people. for instance, many scholars believe that when paul commands women not to speak in church that he was speaking to a certain church. because the women were being too forceful and truly interupting worship my talking too much. and you have to remember the Bible was written by men. with minds of their own.
i’m simply saying you can’t just do EVERYTHING the bible says. it was written in a different time, place, a lot of difference involved. it depends on how you look at the bible. if its just A STORY possibly a made up one. then sure. take it how it is. don’t question just accept it all. but if you look at it as a guide to how to live your life. you MUST interpret it and question it. there is nothing wrong with questions. in my opinion, my faith would be less real and genuine if i just blindly accepted everything and didn’t think about what does this mean to me? for me? i don’t think God wants us to just accept everything like that.
but i do agree to an extent you shouldn’t just make it what you want to make it. for example, the bible says that murder is wrong. its not fair for a person to say they want to be a christian but refuse to try to change the fact that they happen to be a serial killer. its one thing to struggle with sin but genuinely want to change. its another to say that the Bible is okay with something when it clearly isn’t.
another example, and disclaimer: in no way do i have a problem with homosexuals.
but anyway, this group of homosexual Christians came to the Christian College i used to attend. they held a ‘talk’ or whatever with the students and faculty. this group goes around to different Christian colleges sharing their stories and trying to convince them that homosexuality is okay and everything. and i believe it is absolutely possible to be gay and be a christian. according to the bible it is a sin. okay. but are a lot of things that i do. because i struggle with sin and do those things do i say “oh well that means i’m not a christian anymore” of COURSE not. anyway, if they were to say “well i’m a christian. and i know the bible says its wrong, but i don’t care” i would have respected them much more. i don’t disrespect them! but i would respect them more. but instead they came and told us that the bible SAYS that its okay to be homosexual that it is not at all a sin. they used the bible verse that says that the law is gone and now the law is love and they completely twisted it to mean something different so that it would fit their lifestyle. i think that was wrong. if you disagree with something in the bible, you aren’t being forced to do anything or to not do anything. if you struggle with sin, that is okay, we all do. if you simply refuse to do something, alright, your perogative. BUT i think its quite another to say that the Bible says “this” when it actually says “that” just so you can have the best of both worlds so to speak.
i’ve also heard people argue that the Bible says cursing is fine and not a sin. it would be interesting just once to hear someone make an argument that the bible says something is okay, when it actually says its wrong. and then hear the person say that they don’t actually even do that thing, that they are just saying. its never that way. people always DO the thing that they “say” is fine, when its not.
i curse…a LOT…but you won’t hear me saying “God thinks its perfectly fine that I talk horribly” because that isn’t true at all. i know its wrong. and i know He says its wrong. i’m not going to lie to make myself feel better. will i still do it? sure. but i won’t lie or hide anything.
so i guess i agree AND disagree with you…i really respect your views though. you are a very intelligent person and i like hearing about what it is that you believe.
@Xx_Kittt_xX - I guess the point this is, when you start changing things, or reinterpreting things, you’re basically creating your own religion, or a version of an exiting religion. But if you look at the history of religion, this has gone on everywhere.
In the end, what you believe is just that. Whether you have evidence to back it up is something totally different. I could tell you a beautiful fairytale and then tell you it’s real, but it doesn’t mean it is. After thousands of years of this on earth, all this twisting and morphing, is it anything but a fairytale whose origins have been lost. A sries of stories written one after another, taking pieces from the last. If I were to go to a future generation and tell them the story of Star Wars and tell them it actually happened, does it make it so, even if they all believe it, even if I believe it myself?
I’d rather stick with facts, things we actually have good evidence for. Sure I could go and intrprite the bible, but why limit myself to it? Why start with it, when I can go all the way back and start with nature?
@lizheartshakespeare - i agree with your thoughts about Christianity except that adam and eve were the biggest twits on the planet. first maybe. but not biggest. i am adam, i am eve. everyone does that everyday.
it DOES make sense! i have questioned the existence of God a couple of times, not a whole lot. for the most part i’ve always believed in the existence of God. i have questioned whether i should be following him or not….a LOT. in fact, recently i went through a VERY rough time. i questioned where in the hell God was in my life? and why he never seemed to come through for me. everynight for weeks i was screaming to God and crying and asking him what the hell was up? i’ve come to the conclusion that ALL of our questions won’t be answered in this life. we just need to take baby steps. you don’t have to jump across the whole room in one hop. but just take one step. eventually things getter better, you are more confirmed in your faith. i’ve realized that God is here for me. that he is real. and that he loves me, not matter how it “feels”. its okay to not want to defend your beliefs when your going through times of questioning. you should know what you believe before you start defending it…i’ve been in the spot you are explaining a zillion times in my life. i’d say if you are certain that there is a God and you believe in him. study his word. spend time with other people that share that faith. and most importantly, talk to him and invest time in your relationship to him. and delve into understanding. you don’t have to figure everything out right now. but if you just make that first step of i know there is a God and i believe in him. then just slowly but surely figure it all out. it will come to you. and i hope everything works out for you!
@roxics - i’m not saying that you, personally, must go and interpret it. i’m just saying as a Christian an active follower of Christ that i have to do that for myself in order to grow in my relationship with God. i think its necessary, defnitely for me. i see what you are saying about the “your own religion” thing. i agree in a lot of ways. and i understand that you want proof and facts. for me though, my ‘faith’/religion isn’t about facts and proof. do i believe it is the truth? absolutely!!! but i know it in my own heart, and i don’t need proof, the bible says blessed are those who believe but have not seen. i know and i don’t need to prove anything. my intentions are not to prove to you that God exists. i don’t think that is possible until he comes back to this world. i may could persuade people to a “belief” in Him. i don’t know if on my own that i, personally, could prove Him to you or anyone though. for me, its about faith not proof. its about figuring out what i personally believe. thats what i choose. i respect that you choose to rely on proof and facts. i can understand why.
@roxics - i guess what i’m trying to say is its a personal choice. i wish that everyone could come to a relationship with Christ, because it has brought me much joy and purpose, among other things. but i can’t force anything on anyone. i can talk about it and share etc. but that isn’t going to guarantee that anyone will have a relationship with God. the person must hear Gods voice and calling to them on a personal level.
I’m a Catholic; born and raised. I believe in God and I believe in Satan. I believe in Heaven and I believe in Hell. I believe in Angels.
I believe what I want, because its what suits me best. I relate more to the Catholics.
Expect I don’t go to church every week nor do I feel the need to have “someone” tell me how to interact sure my God. I feel like thats up to me. I don’t need to to to church to pray, I can go anywhere.
God and I have our own relationship. I talk to Him during good and bad times. He is my one true best friend, he never leaves me.
Sure I’ve been mad at him; I was heartbroken he took my grandpa years ago, but I knew deep down inside it was for the best.
I respect all forms of beliefs and opinions. I never feel the need to downgrade one’s thoughts.
Xo
@Xx_Kittt_xX - The problem I’m having is I’ve been here a million times before, and the only thing that keeps bringing me back is my Christian friends and family telling me its what I “have” to do. Its never been because “He” has proven Himself in any real way. How am I supposed to go on believing there is a God who loves me when He doesn’t even care enough to answer me when I truly cry out to Him? The bible says (I don’t know the exact reference) that the prayers of the faithful are answered in some way. Sometimes its yes, other times its no, and still other times it is wait. I’ve BEEN waiting months, years even. And still no answer. Nothing. He has been completely silent.
I’m supposed to believe by faith. I’m not supposed to ask for a sign in my life, but that is what I need. I can’t believe in something that doesn’t make itself real to me. Its like believing in the tooth fairy, the easter bunny, or santa. When I was young my parents would work hard to maintain those things for me, but as I got older they gave up the facade and eventually I knew they weren’t real. Its been the same with my so called faith. When I was younger my parents worked hard to make sure that my faith was real to me. They would take me to church and pray with me. They would live their lives above board so that I could see how I was supposed to behave. But as I got older, they didn’t try so hard. They couldn’t force me to go to church anymore than I could force them to have the perfect marriage.
I had to stand on my own two feet and claim my faith as my own, completely my own. And I began to examine everything in my life, as much as I could remember. All I saw was mediocrity. I didn’t see God working in a powerful way in my life. I saw my parents working hard to provide for their kids, but nothing more. I saw my aunt die suddenly. I saw my uncle being consumed by a horrible disease, and eventually succumbing to the effects of it. I saw hard working people die too young and the twits of this life living too long. But I didn’t see God. And I began to wonder. So I asked Him to prove Himself to me. To this day, almost 7 years exactly, He hasn’t done so. So tell me, how am I supposed to believe? How long do I have to wait for no answer? If this life is all there is, why am I sitting here waiting on a God I’m not even sure is there?
I am Christian.
I believe that there is a God. He is the ultimate creator. He created the Earth and all the people, animals, etc that inhabit it. I believe that there was a great war in heaven that was provoked by Satan who thought he was better than God. Thus entering sin into the world. Jesus, God’s son, was sent to Earth in human form to preach and teach so that it might be passed down from generation to generation. And then Jesus was crucified to take away sin so that we MIGHT have eternal life in heaven…but we have to CHOOSE to believe and accept him.
I have mold growing on foods, etc in my kitchen yet none of it has ever gotten up and walked out…therefore I’ve come to the conclusion that odds are that is not how we were created. I look at our bodies; how they are designed…the details are magnificent. The way our brain works, the way our nerves go from our brain down our spine, the measily millisecond it takes for me to think a word right now that leads me to type the correct (usually) letter on the keyboard, the details of the heart, the way it pumps blood in and out to be cleansed thru the lungs, everything…it’s broken down to the minute detail and it is perfect…it is a design that I can’t possibly believe just appeared…it HAD to have been created. Thus brings on Faith…Faith that there must and just has to be a God.
The Old Testament bible is historical. It is there to tell us of prophecies that were fulfilled. The laws of the Old Testament were the laws being applied to specific congregations during that time…the issues were being addressed, etc.
The New Testament is more to be applied to our time today. Thus where I would get something like homosexuality being wrong. Corinthians speaks of it, Revelations, and several other books. Revelations 21:8 says homosexuals, among many other sinners will be thrown in to the lake that burns with fire. HOWEVER, I believe God is an equal opportunity employer…it doesn’t matter who you are, what you’ve done, where you’ve been…if you ask him forgiveness for your sins and accept Jesus into your heart and believe in him and what he has done for you…then you will go to heaven.
Otherwise, hell. Hell is the ultimate ending to sin.
Hmm, I think this sums it up. Kind of. As much as you can in a comment box anyway.
@lizheartshakespeare - wow. okay well if you want my opinion?? it sounds like the fact that your family, friends etc are so into church and things and the fact that you feel obligated is acting as a wall, blocking you and God from each other. you have to know that God doesn’t force himself on anyone. you should never feel pressured or forced into having a relationship with God. i don’t know really what to tell you to do. if i were in your situation i would probably try to just not try SO hard. let him come to you and He will, i believe. maybe you are relying too much on the ‘right’ things to do. instead of just asking for a relationship with Him (again i don’t know everything about your faith, so i’m kind of having to assume things in a sense, if i’m wrong about anything please correct me, and i mean no offense by anything i say) let me tell you my story, maybe it will help?
i remember desiring a relationship with God since i was VERY small. i just like somehow knew i wanted to be a Christian, i knew i want God in my life etc. i’m not sure where it came from. my family all related to Christianity and called themselves Christians, which they were/are. but at the same time, that is kind of where it ended in the house. we never went to church until i was almost in middle school and then it was off and on. off and on. and so we never really got involved. also it was a baptist church and i didn’t agree with a lot that went on. there were bibles like in cabinets somewhere in the house. but we never read them or were told to. we would say a short prayer every night but thats about it. we just didn’t talk about it much. anyways, so i never really got “discipled” or anything growing up. but somehow, its weird to describe. i just had this calling on my life since birth to chase after God. i asked Jesus into my heart during childhood and adolescence i cannot even tell you how many times. i did that whole prayer thing they tell you to do a zillion times. but always after like nothing would change i wouldn’t feel things i thought i should feel, it just didn’t seem to make a difference. my senior year of high school, after years of feeling that God didn’t want me, cuz if he wanted me, he’d make himself real to me, after all i’d only been asking for that for the past 17 years, right? well it just never happened. and i felt so depressed and abandoned. so i ended up claiming i was atheist. in retrospect, i don’t think i was at all. i think i was just rebelling. i think i just “denied” God because i was so pissed off at him. but i don’t know that i TRULY thought he didn’t exist. i thought he exist i just thought he was mean and lied about that whole he wants everyone to be saved thing. and i thought that he wanted nothing to do with me. well sometime that year i started going to this church with a friend. and it was unlike most church’s i’d heard of. it wasn’t judgmental but accepting. they were TRUE Christians and really care about people and they really loved God. i started going there. and i really liked it and about a year later i got saved at a christian concert my ex bf thought i should go to. i’m not sure what was different. i think it may have had something to do with the real christians i’d developed relationships with within my church. part of it at least. but anyway, something was different this time. my whole life changed, i changed. i don’t know why this time it happened when i’d been asking for that to happen for the 17 years prior to this. but i guess God had a reason. i wouldn’t give up but from what you are saying it seems to me that you may need to find YOUR faith. apart from others and what they believe and what they want of you. apart from your family and your parents. you need to seek and just find that relationship with God on your own. find YOUR relationship with Him. don’t rely on what you think it should be like or what you think is right. what you think your “suppossed” to do. just keep asking. i think he has your best interest at heart and i think it will happen eventually. i hope that you find everything you need.
@Xx_Kittt_xX - I really appreciate you telling me your testimony, so please don’t take what I’m about to say personally. I HAVE tried making my faith my own. I’ve changed churches, read my bible through more times than I care to remember, and prayed endlessly for God to speak to me in even the smallest of ways, and he hasn’t. I don’t want to get into my life story here, so I am going to tell you to go to my blog. I’m not trying to draw traffic over there, I’m just trying to get you to understand where I’m coming from. The newest entry doesn’t go into a whole hell of a lot of detail. But there is a post on there that is a couple of days old with the title “Oh Boy…” Its basically my entire life story, so you can read it and get a pretty clear understanding of who I am. If your up for it, I’m on aim. PM me with your sn and we can chat more there.
@lizheartshakespeare - i meant no offense. i just didn’t know, like i said in the post. i didn’t take it personally i asked you to correct me. and you did. its hard giving advice to someone when your not sure where they are at spiritually or their history. the only reason i really even mentioned that was because you said “the only thing that keeps bringing me back
is my Christian friends and family telling me its what I “have” to do.
Its never been because “He” has proven Himself in any real way” i will read your blog. and i’ll message you my screen name. probably won’t get on aim tonight/this morning but feel free to im me anytime when i’m on if you’d like to talk.
@roxics - no I have the fear of, hell. Its not what if im wrong, believe flat out. When I say I have the fear of god, it means that I fear what Im doing. What I guess I meant to say is that I didnt believe It was going to matter. I didnt care what god had to do to me, and in the mindset that “im a sinner”, decided I didnt need god. Until one day, like I said before I really knew that I shunned him because I was scared of going to hell. So really, I do believe what you said is true for others, but in my case it was a little different. If I really had fear of the what iffs, i’d probably would have announced myself to every religion hoping that if i had all of them, Id be ok. But because its not a fear of, “what if”, Im confident with where im at now. At 13, like i posted on my story, i was nowhere near emotionally or mentaly stable as i feel today.
1& 2. Honestly he gave us five senses so we could live here, no question. Faith is something you have to build with god, he cant build it with you. We all arent destined to go to hell considering it was made for satin and other fallen angels. He created us in trust that we would follow, but he gave us free will, which let us determine how we shall live our lives. I believe in the sacrifice of jesus, therefore I believe that although I might get into heaven, my sins will be burned in purgatory…there is no free pass. Everyone will pay for thier sins, but some people dont believe in purgatory either.
Now, as for the fact that all the sscriptures were made in a time that was les advanced than ourselves? Well, Personally I cant say everyone is gonna believe that some dude died on the cross and was resurrected, or that there was a virgin mary, but thats where faith and logic butt heads. And thats where you have faith and believe that the power of god can create the earth, can create all that lives and thrives, that he can ressurect life or create miracles. That is faith in any god, that you have to build trust in. People have to build trust in faith, not faith in people.Im glad that you have chosen what you would, and that I have my faith in a god no one else has to believe in except me. I would like them to, but im not a preacher haha, and dont like people forcing things down my throat, so why would I to others? Im a non denominational Christian, and dont follow everything that the bible has to say for my own reasonings. Ive already asked myself all the questions youv’e proabably asked yourself, and they are very good questions, but as so, I had time to find what was right for me.
I hear “Mere Christianity” is really good and I’ve started reading it a bunch of times, but ending up setting it aside. One writer I like is Lee Strobel. He was an athiest who’s wife became a Christian and he decided to find out once and for all whether Jesus existed or not. Strobel started out by interviewing all kinds of professors, archeologists, etc. He came to the conclusion that Christ was who He said was.
BTW- this is off topic, but I love your theme and backgroung. It’s sort of mysterious/fantasy like. So cool.
This is an interesting post. I’m not religous, but I love to learn about religion and about atheism and agnosticism.
– J. M. 713
i often wonder if religion is about control. if so, then being spiritual is still ok. i still wonder if when we die that everything just goes black…and its over. hope not..
@anth0nyc - I hope not, as well.
I’m an atheist, but I’ve got a lot of Buddhism in me. I don’t go so far as to believe in reincarnation, but, Buddhist philosophy of things like nonviolence through the Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path provide pretty solid guidelines for being a respectable human being. There’s a lot more to my beliefs that, frankly, it’s too late for me to delve into here, but, yeah. Each man is his own god. He must decide whether he is to be good or evil and it is left to him to decide what that means. If he must look to a greater being for guidance, that is his decision. But he passes of the greatest power he owns: the power of being. Many things are out of our hands, but we have the ability to think and to chose. Thus our power is infinite.
Okay, there’s a lot more I could say. But, I shall stop here for the evening.
@entendezmavoix - Well-said. I look forward to further exchanges with you.
i have a question for people of other religions, atheists, or agnostics. or really anything else?
what do you think happens to you when you die? just out of curiosity…..
@ThePraisedOne - you practice islam, right?
what does your faith consist of? i’ve noticed similairities between islam and judaism….and was wondering what the differences might be? just curious…
@Xx_Kittt_xX - I have thought much of this, and studied to try to find the answer to it. I don’t know yet. But I’m always looking for answers.
@Xx_Kittt_xX -That, my friend, is a loaded question. I’m not sure what I believe on life after death yet. Still working it out.
@lonelywanderer2 - oh okay, thanks for your answer
@lizheartshakespeare - k, thank you
@lizheartshakespeare - and good luck working everything out…
@Xx_Kittt_xX - thanx. That means a lot coming from you
@lizheartshakespeare - no problemo, friend
@Xx_Kittt_xX - Between advances in cloning and advances in computer programming, I’m hoping to opt out of the whole death thing. See my post on “Immortality May Be Possible”
@Xx_Kittt_xX - The fundamental teachings of Moses, Jesus and Mohammed (pbut) are the same. The first commandment given to Moses (pbuh) was the Shama or Kalima, as Muslims would have it.
That Shama is: De 6:4 “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is One LORD”
Same thing was repeated by Jesus (pbuh), when a scribe came to him and asks him which is the first commandment of all? Jesus replied:
MARK 12:29 And Jesus answered him, the first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is One Lord:
In the Medina some Christians came to Mohammed (pbuh) and asked him, what is your concept of God? At this moment God sent a revelation:
112:1 Say: He, God, is One.
If we are to follow the religion known as “Judaism” than this religion is not mentioned anywhere in the Law (Torah) (Old Testament) or Talmud or any other scriptures claimed by Jews to be the word of God. Nor did Moses (pbuh) in their sacred scriptures told his followers that their religion is “Judaism”. Where does this word “Judaism” comes from? Palestine was divided into tribes, one of them known as “Judea”. Therefore, the religion followed by the children of Juda in the land of Judea is known as “Judaism”.
Hope that explain well to your curiosity
@lonelywanderer2 - i’ll have to look at that
@ThePraisedOne - thank you very much
On a show discussing Mohammed, it was said that Allah (God) told the prophet Mohammed, “The message I give to you is the same message given to the Christians, and to the Jews”
@Xx_Kittt_xX - As an atheist I don’t have an evidence for an afterlife. Anything could be possible. But at this point I don’t see any other reason to believe anything but death. I’m ok with that. I’m not so vain to believe that I deserve eternal reward or eternal damnation. Once I’m dead I won’t know I’m dead anyway so it won’t matter. But it does give me more reason to live my life while I have it.
i believe that if you have a scientific mind & will only believe something with proof then you will never be religious, as trusting God takes faith – seeing without believing. & it’s hard for most people.
@ClockworkBunny - What she said.
I suspect they exist from without. It’s what the Bible does seem to say throughout. However, it is quite uninformative on this issue, perhaps for the best. That’s all i’ve got.
@robynnator - @grammarboy - Very true.
@ShamelesslyRed - Awesome. You should blog this if you haven’t already. I’ve lately come to realize I will inevitably have a book published, maybe more than one. Thanks largely to Xanga, and sharing with you all.
I was not raised in a Christian home. I had no idea of who Jesus was. I never went to church outside of the 2 times we visited my grandmother across the states. I never had some huge emotional upheaval that caused me to seek God out, nor did I go looking for Him for any reason.
One afternoon, I went inside of a church to retrieve my brother ( i was 20) ..I was not there for 5 minutes, heard the message of Christ (the short version of the Gospel)…and I was instantly..for a lack of a better term…shattered. I cannot explain how over 5 minutes I went from ” I seriously could not care less”, to being so keenly aware that Jesus had just stepped foot inside of my life. It was a transformation that is without words to describe (not adequately). I went from not knowing…to knowing intimately that Christ IS. Don’t misunderstand me…It was not like hearing it and getting in my head…it was more like I was just introduced in my heart to Him. That was 19 years ago. Today, like that day, Jesus Christ is as real to me as my own kids..closer to me than my mother..and understands me like I don’t fully understand myself. It is a relationship. Not a religion. It’s the best thing that ever happened to me and–the hardest thing I ever endeavored to do is to be a Christian. It’s been quite an adventure and one heck of a ride through life!!
It’s remarkable that someone who claims not to believe in any god or gods would then define that god in a way that probably a lot of people who do believe in a god would agree with him. If one doesn’t believe in a god, it is disingenuous to then provide a definition of non-god as justification for not believing in god. I have not yet come across an atheist’s definition of god that I agree with, or that even sounds reasonable. On the other hand, most definitions of god by theists also fall short. Theist and atheists need to work harder at agreeing on a common definition, so they are at least talking about the same thing.
@Epigonus - Thanks for reading, and sharing your own view.
I typically only enter faith discussions with people whom I have a relationship with.
That said, in my faith, we have the freedom to accept or deny God. We also believe that there is something in each human that is eternal which returns to God.
Denial of God, as long as it is accompanied by refutation of the eternal, spiritual human element is logical. And, assuming this denial and refutation are correct, logic dictates that they be adopted.
This formula only falls short if there is a limit to logic.
@SwordAndSacrifice - An excellent point, and we have a relationship, as fellow humans, Xangans, and seekers of truth.
I appreciate this. I feel much the same on all respects.
@Lushy - Thanks for reading. I’ll chek out your site too!
great discussions going on in the comments.
Omg. You are my absolute favorite for writing this. You’ve pretty much stated what I’ve been trying to argue for awhile now. Only much better than I can. THANK YOU!!!
I don’t know anything about Methodist as a denomination, but this sounds so familiar. I have met almost no-one who was raised Methodist and kept the Christian faith into adulthood, which of course raises questions about whether they ever had any faith in the first place. Faith is not comfortable. Faith is hard.
Hope brings comfort, to some extent, but that’s a different concept.
Faith means you believe something out of necessity, because not believing would have worse repercussions than believing, despite the fact that there is no concrete, measurable truth. That is why the Bible says that of faith, hope and love, love is the greatest. When the beginning comes, we will no longer need faith or hope that it will come; it will be here. At that point both will be obsolete and it will be too late for people like you to choose them. At that time only love, of the three, will matter. But at that point you will either have love or not, and I would argue that there is no true love without faith.
I haz questions, silly ones: why do we feel the need to wear clothes? why are we so concerned with right and wrong, when animals don’t care about morals. why do we have heartfelt words like forever and eternity, when we have never experienced that? why do children crave boundries when you think that would be the last thing they need to be happy?
I am by choice a practicing Roman Catholic. I had my period of doubt, and returned to the faith in which I was raised. What I have never quite understood is why so many of us feel the need to convince others to believe or not believe as we do, or insist that they conform to our moral standards. I’d rather let my life be my testimony, and leave the words to more eloquent people. Frankly, I find the ardent atheist and the ardent missionary equally annoying.
Yes, I do believe they actually exist.
I have a question: How much proof is enough?
I’m sorry if you’ve answered this already but I haven’t read the 85 comments ahead of mine.
And thanks for your honesty and the lack of baiting which exists in so many religious/atheist/agnostic debates these days.
I have been a Christian for about 36 years.
I believe that God and Jesus are two different people, that Jesus is God’s son and that God’s real name is Jehovah. We believe that we are in the end of this System of Things, and that all of the righteous ones will be resurrected and given the opportunity to live forever.
I am a Jehovah’s Witness.
I’m one of the ones who go door to door and hand out magazines. You can’t stand us. I’ve had an occasion where I was about 4 or 5, maybe 6, and my grandfather and I were at someone’s house and the person who answered the door started yelling at us and then slammed the door in our faces. I couldn’t tell if it was a man or a woman.
@followfreedom - A great question! I think any supernatural being would have to actually appear to me, and prove its powers before I personally would believe.
@Queen_of_You188 - I admit to knowing little about Jehovah’s Witness’s belief system. I have nothing against Jehovah’s Witnesses, but I would not like for people of any faith to come to my door to hand out literature.
@lonelywanderer2 - we do it just to get the message across. People really have a problem with us. TT_TT
I believe in the Christian God, commonly known as God although his real name is Yahweh. I do believe that he is the only way to eternal life in heaven.
well… let me give a short, comprehensible possibility. i believe a higher power MUST exist. it may be possible that the higher power is strictly a collective conscience… like a conscious, which all living things can tap into. maybe once we have lived and experienced, we become a part of that collective conscience – higher thought process. just a thought.
faith isn’t something that is easy to explain. it’s either in you or not. i believe in a higher being that controls our destinies, although i’m not religious.
I’m awful at explaining what I believe, heh. But if you’ll bear with me I’ll try anyway;
I’m an eclectic pagan. I personally believe that there is a singular force, or being, that runs the universe. I use the term “being” very loosely, since I know that if such a thing should exist…that it’s very difficult to understand, especially in scientific terms. I look at it, through physics. Everything is made up of the same sort of energy, once you break it down enough, the same “stuff”…so I believe that nature is a manifestation of that force, and that, in extension this means we’re all connected to it.
I’m a modern earth-worshipper.
I tend to believe that all the pantheons on the planet are basically our interpretations, or various personalities of the same “force”…our attempts at understanding them. And that their myths, personalities, etc. can basically be archetypes or reflections of things that lurk in our psyches. Not to be so flattering as to say we’re God-like, but to say that as the divine thinks about us, we think about them also…consciously or not, and that alot of good learning can be had in prayer, meditation, and exploring yourself.
In my faith, I don’t believe in good and evil in quite the same way. To me, good and evil is the expression of duality. We’re all various equations of good, bad, and morally ambiguous goop, if you’ll forgive my bad analogy. Some are just more bad than ambiguous or good, some are more ambiguous than anything, and more than we think are good more than anything…and most of us just fall on various other places on the scale. To that end, everything else is much like that. I believe that most harm in the world happens, not due to evil, but from ignorance and hiding from ourselves. Because even the worst people, if they’re smart and know themselves, minimize the damage they do as they commit bad deeds.
Which brings me to the last point; the universe is basically like a pond. Everything influences and is influenced…the nature of the thing, or fish, or what’s on the lake at the time determines its influence and how it, in turn, is affected (and you can see this through science, with the study of variables and the ecosystem in particular depth). And this is all good, because it’s the natural process of things…and with everything so reliably chaotic and constantly changing (a paradox we can see in nature itself, nature has, to an extent, a pattern, but it always takes surprising paths anyways)…it gives so many opportunities for learning.
Bleh, see, I’m horrible at describing what I believe. I usually summarize with, “Ah, ^_^’ the world’s more complicated than black & white, evil vs. good, it’s a harmonic balance of contradictions that makes everything possible. The point is that we learn from it and do our best.”
In addition to being eclectic dirt-worshipping pagan…I also try to follow the code of chivalry, despite being a girl. so…yeah. xD
It’s not a question of what I think or believe. Unlike many in my neighborhood, community, and even state, I was not raised in under the authority of Christ. Sure, my family half believed in him and my great grandparents and estranged Uncle and Aunt would frequent church. However, my mom, grandma, and myself never did. It was pointless I suppose. Better things to do on Sunday morning than to listen to a hypocrite preacher drone on about misguided facts and information pertaining to a Bible written by men about a man’s journey into existence and his eventual death and resurrection.
The fact is, at age 12…ish…I did try to attend a chuch. It was a Presbyterian church that seemed to catch what other churches denied. I recognize this now and am thankful that such establishments exist. Even if the person goes back to their pitiful existence after that Sunday’s sermon, for those 3 or 4 hours their attention was on God and on being better. Good intentions and all of that. Though, a young aspiring teen doesn’t see it in that light. I thought they were all full of shit and I was glad to be rid of them.
Thus, my wonder years were spent in blissful ignorance, and my teen years spent in blunt hatred and denial.
After high school and making a mistake that has cost me dearly, I sought yet again to understand the Lord and his seemingly mysterious ways. Why do so many mindlessly flock to Satan created churches in the name of guy who supposedly died for our sins?
I sat down and read the Bible. Cover to cover. And not that Catholic knock off or the King James fruity version. The NLV. Hebrew/Greek text broken down into the common vernacular. It was bitter sweet and filled me with moments of rapt laughter. But, like I had swore to myself, I read cover to cover and found that this God was to my liking.
1)He accepted no bullshit. When He and Moses came down from Mt. Sinai, the first time, and saw a statue created to honor Baal, God was quite eager and willing to wipe them from the face of the Earth. Why?
2)Because He had a plan. He knew that his creation was corrupted. That there were forces at work bent on destroying humanity from within. But what was His plan?
3)He was going to set a man on Earth capable of teaching the simpletons. This man will be pure of heart and have the world set against him. He’ll create a church and reach out to the little man. He’ll then become a martyr for his teachings which will help promote Him throughout the ages.
Now, who could argue that, after you’ve taken out the bias and misinformation within the pages of the Bible, this was indeed a great plan.
Now we get to what I believe. I believe God saw the best of his creation. He wanted to think that in time, we could overcome our faults and be something better. But He wasn’t stupid. He tried for that last bit of “fire and brimstone” to scare us into doing right. He failed.
Everything I’ve learned about God, his possible existence, and the various other religions has only enhanced my belief in a God. Not the Christian God mind you, but certainly a being. Science has shown me that such a being could in fact exist, but did He ever interact with mankind? Doubtful. It would have reneged on him giving us Free Will. So who was the God in the Bible that set the Jews against Baal and other evil deities and sought to to free mankind from it’s burdens? The world may never know.
@AlongTEH_Path - I think you express what you believe very eloquently, and you must be a great person to know!
I couldn’t agree with this more. You see I’m one of those people that floats around in the middle. I think that every religion has some good points and bad points but I can’t tell anyone that they’re wrong which is why I can never strictly believe in one religion.
I was raised in a family where my one side was strictly Jehovah’s Witnesses, and the other side didn’t care for religion. Growing up I explored being a Witness, and found after time that I was doing it just to please my family and their friends. After that experience, I became agnostic. I wasn’t sure what was out there, and frankly, I didn’t care at the time. Now I am a Witch, and I know that what I believe is right for me. I believe that everyone is touched by a different religion, or philosophy. Everyone is different, and so you have to find what you believe, and believe whole-heartedly in it. I have never felt so “at home” as I do now. What I believe gives me a sense of comfort, and life is just falling into place now. Good luck to all, and Blessed Be.
I’ve studied just about every religion there is. I was catholic and became a pagan and am now a christian.
i’m indeed looking for that One heart who really can swim into my heart and know all the reasons of my actions without having to speak a word. i realise that, regardless of what your religion is, when you’ve decided what you want to believe, and you devote to it with sincerity, you’ll get your answer.
I believe the complexities of life is strong evidence of a creator. It makes no sense to me that a non conscious, non living molecule could produce consciousness and all the complexities in life.
i’m open to the idea of a higher power, but pretty much nothing about Christianity appeals to me.
God, I am angry, for I lost a major comment on this issue. You have read, “Pinkhoneysuckle” and you know that I lived among angels and demons. They were sent to me, and the had no name, no sound, but I heard words, “Run now girl, run, for they will have their way with you and leave you broken in the woods.” How could I believe in this God who let Dad swing the shot gun in our face, ready to shoot our mother in the head, as we all quivered to our knees, and a sister would grab it, and I smell the gun’s polish even now. The demon dreams began after that, so I rarely slept, so evil was so real. It was surrounding us, choking us, and I would Pray and Pray until I could not find prayers. I had much disbelief, and felt agnostic in my 20s, but someone was searching for me. At every lowest point, I would be rescued. You’ve not seen where I would have been; But I asked all the time for help from God, and he would not hear, so I thought until — What I had to face or do was laid out as if I had a chart. Catholicism took me in to the mystical and the mysterious God, and explained the cost of the blessed Old and New Testament. We only have known the God of near 6 Millenium, so science and God fail to contradict one another. God was the Alpha, so ages of dinosaurs and an earth covered with mainly waters does not surprise me. There are stars beyond counting; So God the Mystical Master probably did not just change this planet. We have the blessing of all the writings which relate so incredibly to this age, even as it did then which ask us to do the will of a Master who knows our every though, and some of us have to open our hears and say that prayers have been answered, that a faith which crossed seas in a time when a cart was a major way of transportation, but otherwise, the word had to travel by sea; But I get frustrated, so frustrated, for God does not seem to hear sometimes, but he has allowed us to trust that all will be explained in the course of times, and that for evil; If we search too far, then we will find it through our sorcery and our intentions of finding the occult.. On skin with what a writer had they transcribed the word of God. That it has lasted for all of these ages tells me there are things we do not know. Lasting, xomething lasting which was so brutally punished for believing, but from the caves to the piece of the real cross which is in the Vatican oblesk; From the dead seascrolls we learn that God entered this primordil garden and made man. That he molded us from clay and breathed life in to Adam goes along with some folk tales of that day. Man has endeavored to move God from the scheme of things from age to age, and I have fallen in to disbelief and shall over and over, but about the time my faith has drifted from me is also the time when I hear the messages which are my guide and compass, the way which I must go. I do not think a person who is agnostic is a place to begin conversion, because the first lessons I have learned is that it is in my eyes to look, my ears to hear, and from my mouth to speak. I may be a witnes to near death experiences and tell you that relatives usually come or angels in glowing beautiful colors, for my Hospice patients, even the doubters would start asking if we could not see the dead in the room. We knew then to prepare the family, so is it all happenstance, and should we simply agree that being an agnostic with manners and social graces has a lot more fun, for all is open for discussion , and the easiest is to jump in to the wildest fun and wacky morals beginning any day one chooses. People profess they can easily be moral beings without any help from some God Squad, and some can, but many of us measure our behavior against the standard of what we believe to be a life of faith. I have, in two full near death states been places you could not go — A river with loved ones on the other side, and another time in what looked like the entry to The Star Wars hallways, but Dads old fence frame seemed to stop me from going on through.
You will not believe in God unless you go on a search, for you either never felt the pull of the Kingdom and the love of God in the Holy Trinity. I could ask you to read works like, “The Seven Story Mountain,” or Mother Theresa, or about Pope John Paul’s murder attempt, for they are insightful. Most Protestants feel as I felt as a child that my Bible was all that I needed, and I needed so very much more.
I still have doubt at times, and Priest and Lay Workers have times when they just feel they have prayed their hearts out for nothing. I repeat one special prayer every day, and one is just hurting me, grabbing me in my gut, because I need some help from God, but a good Christian friend of mine told me this; “Tell God that you need to take care of this, that it is fully out of your control, and if he believes something needs to be fixed, then you finally give over and say, “Lord, this is yours, for it is too tough for me to handle. I cannot hurt another day, though I know what jhappened was wrong, involved a bunch of demented people who call on the Lord and know they do not believe a word of it.” I never really got before that I could just say that I am done to God, but this woman is such a person of faith that she glows in the joy of it.
Heaven and Hell are ideas in most cultures whether Christian or not, and some form of angels is pretty much across the board. I believe Perry that religion is so difficult to understand that to get some handle on it; You must take classes and develop some friendships. We will still doubt though, for it is just too impossible that all is answered by the first words of Genesis, and I do not think that I could believe one thing had I not been some how chosen to act as a witness to all that was so pathetic in our home. “I can hear you children scream said one of my angels,” and if we were not in the cotton fields, then we were at Mrs. Hannahs eating Thanksgiving dinner, for we had none. As I wrote my book, I could only be astounded that I was saved by Divine Intervention again and again, so you tell me if it is all false, for in my doubt, shame which I did not bring on myself;; In the heart break which made our family a family who was considered to be among the lowest of the low, because we were poor why I should thank this God for coming along and changing hearts, for sending words to my ears each time when I needed to go or to hide. I would like to take the El Camino if I am well enough between now and age 70, for I want to walk the path of St. John, and I want to go again to Vatican City and tough the worn foot of St. Peter, but mainly to look at the library, for there are answers there. Every time our church has sunk to the lowest of lows; We are sent a helper. Watch under The Bishop of Rome, our Frances, for you are going to see some mighty house cleaning… I hope that all children, at least, get to know God someway, for they deserve the opportunity to walk in the Fisherman’s Shoes as well.
Pilgrim, that is all that I can be, for I am searching, just searching and hanging on for dear life, for I cannot end the journey without reaching out for the hands on the other side. God, and The Christ, and The Holy Spirit seems to summon us, though we who have many doubts seem to have to pay the extra dues of prayer and study, and even then, we just have to be quiet to call on the name of Jesus leaving our noisy world behind..
God Bless You On Your Journey,
First consider that we are needy, hungry, and unclothed, and in that state we are born, we die, and our spirit must become that naked to be filled.
Bless you my Friend
Barb