July 15, 2013
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Zimmerman versus Martin- A Life or Death Decision
Right now many people are hotly debating the Not Guilty verdict in the George Zimmerman trial. Obviously some believe the verdict was just, some don’t. The thing is, there only two people involved in the confrontation which led to the death of young Trayvon Martin. Nobody else can know beyond a shadow of a doubt what happened, and for sure nobody can see into the hearts and minds of Zimmerman and Martin. There is a very good chance each thought he was the one in danger.
I believe Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman. Zimmerman felt he was in danger of being caused great bodily harm or death and had only seconds to make the decision whether to use deadly force to stop his attacker. I believe Zimmerman will spend the rest of his life questioning his actions on that day.
I have, thankfully, never been in a situation that I thought called for use of deadly force, but I have been in confrontations where someone was threatening to harm me or others. I used the minimum force necessary to control the situation, and never seriously hurt anyone. In those cases where this was in the line of duty, I was told I had handled things correctly. I know some people thought I should have used more force than I did. I still replay those scenes in my head sometimes, wondering if I did the right thing.
Comments (64)
I don’t know enough about the situation to have an informed opinion about which way it should have gone so I refuse to pass judgment on Zimmerman for the actions he took. I agree it was probably a tough choice and there wasn’t enough time for him to think the situation through. Stuff like that it’s a snap decision. I have no problem taking another life if someone wants to beat the hell out of me. If someone came up to me and said they wanted me dead, I’d let them kill me. They’d be doing me a favor by killing me anyway.
Thoughtful post. I too have stepped in to stop confrontations in progress or about to happen and in so doing used minimal force. I have come to a different conclusion about what led to the death of Trayvon Martin basically because I believe George Zimmerman’s real use of self defense came after he shot Martin and came in the form of inconsistencies in his story, exaggerations in his story, something the lead detective also thought and even his defense attorney Mark O’Mara conceded, and lies he was caught in as he told his story to police. Trayvon Martin was on the phone with his friend when the altercation began minutes after he told her a creepy guy was following him. She was still talking to Trayvon when she heard Trayvon yell, “Get off me! Get off me!”. The next thing she heard was the phone drop on what sounded to her like grass. Zimmerman told police Martin “jumped out of the bushes” and sucker punched him. There were no bushes there. Zimmerman told police he didn’t get out of his vehicle to approach Martin but got out to look for a street sign in order to know what street he was on. Zimmerman not only lived in that gated community for 4 years, he was the head of the community patrol. There are only 3 streets in the community. One has to wonder how he could not know what street he was on. An expert witness testified Zimmerman’s injuries were not serious and not consistent with his story that Martin banged his head into the concrete again and again. In fact where Trayvon’s body was found after being shot by Zimmerman and shot while, according to Zimmerman’s story Martin was on top of him, was on the grass and approximately 25 feet away from the concrete sidewalk. I won’t go on and on but there are several other reasons I believe Zimmerman was the aggressor from beginning to end. The jury brought their verdict and that is it for this trial. One thing that haunts me is Trayvon Martin died not knowing who his killer was nor why he followed him.
Was Zimmerman justified in following Martin? This seems to be a key question for liberals, although they just ASS-UME that Zimmerman wasn’t justified.What do we know about Martin? He had recently been suspended from school for possessing stolen property (known to have been taken during a burglary), which theft has been documented as being covered up by the police in order to improve their statistics, although a different reason for the suspension was given (writing graffiti on school property). I discuss the evidence for this on my blog.Who called 911? Was it Martin who was scared about being stalked by a “creepy ass cracker?” Or was it Zimmerman who was concerned about a stranger prowling about the back yards of his neighbors, peering at their houses?Who instigated the fight? Zimmerman or Martin? I think that it’s clear that Zimmerman was sucker-punched, resulting in his nose being broken. That means that Martin hit first.Martin was a train wreck on its way to happening before he met Zimmerman. Too bad the crooked police chief Hurley prevented Martin’s arrest for possessing stolen property and possibly burglary. Maybe that would have caused Martin to miss his appointment with Death.But why wasn’t Zimmerman’s blood found by forensics on Martin’s hands? This is a question lots of pinheads ask, right after they discuss Martin walking in the rain. Florida rains are often heavy and leave water on the ground.And why don’t the pinheads ever note that Zimmerman took a lie-detector test the night of the killing at police headquarters?
I agree with a couple of the people above-and all the people rioting in the street to protest the violence? I just wrote my blog on this today. If Zimmerman had not had a gun-he would have been beaten to death.@soccerdadforlife - a lot of facts that seem to be left out. Sad but true
@soccerdadforlife - what about Zimmerman’s criminal record?
I will give Zimmerman the benefit if the doubt that he thought his life was in danger. However, he did put himself into that position. It was 2 people that made dumb decisions and it’s unfortunate one if them had a gun. The big difference was that Martin was a teenager and Zimmerman is almost 30. Zimmerman should have known better, but that’s history now.
Most gun shooters have the code to shoot to (solidly) kill. Not maime, not injure but to kill outright and not do any fancy shooting. I would hope that George Zimmerman had that option but he obviously did not take it.How many people shoot to kill? Soldiers and some policemen. Isn’t that scary?On a personal note I never was beaten where I feared for my life I suppose. I did get a major head trauma but If I had a gun then, I don’t think I would have justified shooting my attacker. The “victim” often feels it is their fault so yeah that is why we reserve the right to shoot to kill to professional soldiers and real police, not neighborhood watch folks.
Let me add this. That you resolved situations with minimal use of force is not a good thing. It’s a great thing. Never question yourself on that. Pat yourself on the back. It takes courage, self discipline and composure in the midst of mayhem, a sound mind and a good heart.
@TheSutraDude - You’ve probably never seen the pictures of Zimmerman right after Trayvon beat the crap out of him. All the blood. All the bleeding wounds on the back of his head from being knocked to the assault.There is every indication that Zimmerman acted judiciously to defend his own life. Thank God he was packing heat.
@ImNotUglyIJustNeedLove - You must love being wrong. I followed the trial. I saw all the pictures. It was noted by an expert witness, a medical examiner that the injury to the back of his head was not serious. Once the blood was wiped away the injury didn’t look bad at all. It was pointed out during the trial that we get often get cuts in which the bleeding makes the cut look worse than it is. It was also pointed out that the head bleeds a lot when cut. Zimmerman refused medical attention. He went to his doctor the day after and she also testified the cut was not that bad. If your head is bashed into concrete over and over and over again as Zimmerman claimed his was you’re going to have a cracked skull at the very least. Your skull is most likely going to be bashed in. You won’t get away with just a couple of small cuts.
@TheSutraDude - You’re a liberal. That means your bias is so intense that it’s crippling and you will see whatever you want to see.People who are not crippled by their bias understand that there was no case against George Zimmerman.His trial was trumped up by President Obama who at heart is a race baiter and leftist agitator.Even the FBI couldn’t find any evidence against Zimmerman. And at present that is embarrassing the Obama Regime to no end.
@ImNotUglyIJustNeedLove - Wrong again but maybe that’s why you are siding with Zimmerman. Profiling wrongly. I’m a registered independent, something I’ve told you many times but you seem too stupid to understand. The federal government suspended their investigation to allow the State to pursue the case without pressure or prejudice. The federal government case would not be based on murder anyway. If a federal case is brought forth it will be based on discrimination. The decision of the Justice department or the FBI does not reflect on the President of the United States.And once again I will tell you your attempts to insult people do not validate your arguments. Instead your attempts to insult people are the very reason people don’t take you seriously, to put it nicely.
@TheSutraDude - You do not determine right and wrong. Reality determines what is right or wrong.The FBI and the Sanford’s Chief of Police (Obama had him fired) determined that there was no evidence against Zimmerman.In fact, Zimmerman wasn’t even arrested until the Obama Regime made it happen. That was 40 days after the fact.You are backing a brutal, totalitarian regime, one that victimizes innocent people in order to foment unrest.
@ImNotUglyIJustNeedLove - The lead investigator in the case wanted to bring charges against Zimmerman but was overruled by the Chief of Police who was then fired. Obama did not have him fired. The City Manager fired him. ”We need to move forward with a police chief that all the citizens of Sanford can support. I have come to this decision in light of the escalating divisiveness that has taken hold of the city.” – City Manager Norton Bonaparte You have no idea about what the facts are and trying to blame The President of the United States is what you always try to do. That falls on deaf ears in this country apart from the far right wingnut blogs.
@TheSutraDude - The Chief of Police was doing his job. It’s called a management hierarchy.All organizations have them.You don’t get to be the Chief of Police of Sanford and neither would Obama if he didn’t have such a following of people who see nothing wrong with the President of United States running everything.
@TheSutraDude - Don’t bother arguing with him, he’s just another incarnation of Loborn.
@coolmonkey - I know. Thank you for bringing that up. He’s a troll, a bald man in his 40s who for years posed as a woman. How sick is that?
@coolmonkey - If you had an actual argument you’d make it. But you don’t. You’re just parroting what the leftist drive-by media machine tells you.That is pathetic.Be less pathetic and make an actual argument if you are still able. Calling people “LoBorn” is childish and unworthy of serious adult conversation.
@TheSutraDude - You sound like one of Trayvon’s girl friends. Here’s what she said on Piers Morgan’s show:”Well, the jury, they see their facts. My thoughts of the jury, they old, that’s old school people. We in a new school, our generation, my generation.”Is you an old school people or a new school people, Dude? Or are you just another one of them white ass crackas?Yes, Dude. Follow the LINK to Jeantel and see yourself in all her glory.
Were you ever trolled or followed by a pedophile when you were young? It happens to many of us. And in fact, Trayvon mentioned in his phone conversation the possibility that the ‘creepy-ass-cracker’ might be a pedo. His friend Rachel dismissed it with a joke, but they both might have believed it was possible.Actually, Trayvon had no idea why this creepy Zimmerman was following him. And Zimmerman was too thick headed to imagine how anyone would react to him. We have two dumb people making bad decisions.It is possible Trayvon thought he was fighting off a molester. We all feel justified in doing that. Guys, I mean, all guys do.
@ImNotUglyIJustNeedLove - Let me remind everyone you are the middle-aged balding man who posed as a woman on Xanga for years. Even with her lack of standard education Rachel Jeantel is far more intelligent and honest than you.
@TheSutraDude - Rachel speaks three languages fluently. Did you know that? Spanish, Creole, and English.
@we_deny_everything - Jeantel speaks her languages at a level called BICS (Basic Interpersonal Communication Skills).So that means she’s basically a tri-lingual illiterate.
@TheSutraDude - You know as much about me as you do the Zimmerman case, Dude.That means you only know what you happen to be hallucinating at the time.And someone who hallucinates about a “middle-aged balding man who posed as a woman on Xanga for years” has really got some serious problems.
@we_deny_everything - I did know that. She’s not a dumb girl. In English she speaks the language of her neighborhood. I relate that to people of southern Germany where I lived. They speak Bavarian and sometimes criticized for that by northern Germans who speak Hoch Deutsche yet Bavarians understand Hoch Deutsche while some northern Germans don’t understand Bavarian so who is the brighter? While the defense attorney didn’t understand her on several occasions she seemed to understand him just fine. Who is the brighter?
@ImNotUglyIJustNeedLove - Nice try. It’s not a hallucination, one of your favorite stupid words. Everyone knows about you.
@TheSutraDude - You’re trying to save face by changing the subject making this all about me and one of your hallucinated personal attacks.The topic of conversation is George Zimmerman and his glorious acquittal and all the oppression he’s been subjected to at the hands of people like you and the tyrant you idolize.
@TheSutraDude - In unnecessarily repeating questions to Rachel Jeantel, attorney Don West tried hard to tap into a stereotype of black stupidity but succeeded only in making himself look stupid. Don West is the new icon of white stupidity. (he is the knock-knock guy.)
@we_deny_everything - Now comes the race card. Shame on you! But liberals always play it.All you people have to do is follow the link I provided to see Jeantel for yourselves.She is a clusterflock of stupid and it has nothing to do with her skin color as you and Dude illustrate quite clearly.
@we_deny_everything - Haha yes he is the knock knock guy. How in any way did he think that joke was funny??? West is an arrogant asshole and O’Mara is not far behind. Imagine telling not just the jury but Americans during a press conference that it’s justifiable to be suspicious and afraid of black males. I remember too that West asked again and again to try and make us believe Jeantel was in an intimate relationship with Trayvon Martin. She owned him with her honesty when she was on the stand. He became flustered and frustrated.
@TheSutraDude - Yeah. She owned him so badly that the jury exonerated Zimmerman on all charges.The prosecution consisted of the DA standing in the courtroom with his pants around his ankles hoping nobody would see his 1 inch of screaming pain dangling there in all its limp glory.Your love for the tri-lingual illiterate notwithstanding.
@ImNotUglyIJustNeedLove - He was frustrated and flustered. What the jury thought is anyone’s guess.
@ImNotUglyIJustNeedLove - And oh let me see. What other prosecutors lost cases. High profile cases alone: Marcia Clark in the OJ Simpson. Rudy Giuliani lost 2 attempts at trying John Gotti. The case a couple of years ago of the young mother accused of killing her daughter, Casey Anthony. The detective accused of killing his wives, Drew Peterson.
I think that a lot of the white people who wanted Zimmerman convicted did so out of their own racism. They knew in their heart of hearts that it was self defense but feared the verdict would bring rioting and looting and mass murdering of their kind. In other words they were calling the black population”savages”. Aside from an audiotape that NBC news later admitted to doctoring, I don’t believe Mr. Zimmerman said anything remotely indicative of that level of racism.
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@coolmonkey - Apparently you missed the point. Why was Zimmerman justified in following Martin? Martin was acting suspiciously–going around Zimmerman’s neighborhood looking at houses in the rain, according to Zimmerman. Martin’s record corroborates Zimmerman’s statement that he thought that Martin’s actions seemed suspicious. Zimmerman’s record is irrelevant.
@PPhilip - ”we reserve the right to shoot to kill to professional soldiers and real police, not neighborhood watch folks.”Total drivel. The right of self-defense allows shooting to kill for everyone on U.S. soil, including illegal immigrants. Wow, you really are a lot of bricks shy of a full load.
@soccerdadforlife - If you’re going to kick up Martin’s past, then it’s just as fair to dig up Zimmerman’s charges of domestic abuse and resisting an officer. It demonstrates a guy with an aggressive personality and disregard for authority. If Martin was fishy for walking home because of his past history, then it’s equally fishy with Zimmerman for stalking with his own dirty record.
Well, enough isn’t enough. Holder wants Zimmerman tried for a hate crime now. You know, gun runner Holder?
@soccerdadforlife - “ The right of self-defense allows shooting to kill for everyone on U.S. soil, including illegal immigrants. “What did you exactly mean by that? Self defense on your own property is really different than a supposed vigilante who went out of his way to look for trouble. The Subway vigilante Bernie is your hero?
Hmmmmm…http://www.infowars.com/brothers-murdered-over-free-zimmerman-sticker/
@PPhilip - So, if I attack you off of your property, then it’s illegal for you to harm me? Sounds pretty stupid to me. Lots of states don’t limit self-defense to the home. And then, what is the point of concealed carry, which exists in most states?Seriously, you have a loser mentality.
@coolmonkey - I guess if the sun rises in the west and sets in the east and water isn’t wet, then what you said makes sense.
@ShapeOfAir - Yes, the left covers up racism by blacks all the time. And the lying libs (I know, I repeat myself) excuse the racism with their own hate-filled speech.
@TheSutraDude - Why did you use the term “creepy guy” instead of “creepy-ass cracker” when quoting Martin’s description of GZ? Was it maybe because you subconsciously wanted to hide Martin’s racism in order to make Martin appear to be an innocent victim?You and the truth are totally unacquainted.
@PPhilip - I should add that when you characterize GZ as a vigilante who went out of his way to look for trouble, you are a FUCKING LIAR.
I have been taught in self-defense classes to use three shots at an assailant, so GZ was using less-than-recommended force when he shot TM one time. I’d have to say that GZ was likely attempting to use minimal force.
@soccerdadforlife - And I guess where you’re from, domestic abuse and resisting an officer isn’t such a big deal.
@soccerdadforlife - Wrong again. I didn’t use the word cracker for the same reason I didn’t use words Zimmerman used in describing Martin.
@TheSutraDude - Like most liberals, you resort to personal insults instead of facts and logical arguments. The shame is on you!
@TheSutraDude - No, I was spot on and you are still a liar.
@coolmonkey - Where I’m from, those are irrelevant as to why someone looks suspicious. You’re thick as a brick.
@TheSutraDude - Everyone knows that you’re a lying sack of excrement, too.@guypithecus - Yeah, you’re right, scorn has zero impact, dickwad.
@soccerdadforlife - You have serious issues. And you’re wrong again.
@soccerdadforlife - where I’m from, I see teenagers wearing hoodies all the time going about their business. Never has my response been to stalk them in my car and confront them just for “looking suspicious.” And if you’re going to resort to name calling, then this conversation is over.
@soccerdadforlife - GZ was the liar. How the heck can Trayvon hit zimmerman’s head on the sidewalk (where supposedly the shooting took place and Trayvon’s body was 25 feet away from the sidewalk?) Further more supposedly GZ got out of his vehicle to look for the street name and yet they are both not close to the street.Most likely TM was forced to drop his phone, something caused him to drop it and the likely cause of it was GZ.
@PPhilip - A. Trayvon’s body was NOT 25 feet from the sidewalk. More like 10 feet in the police photo. B. GZ said that he slid into the grass to try to get away from TM. This is consistent with the final position of TM’s body and allows for TM to pound GZ’s head into the concrete for an indeterminate period of time. C. Nobody said that the shooting took place on the sidewalk. D. IDK where the street is in relation to the police photo. Are you claiming omniscience? E. Most likely, TM dropped his phone when he went to sucker-punch GZ. A phone is kind of in the way when you go to make a fist. F. GZ underwent a lie detector test the night of the shooting and that is likely the main reason that the police didn’t pursue charges.You are one of the low-information types (or maybe I should say “lie-believing” types).
@TheSutraDude - Are your lips moving again?
@coolmonkey - So if you see someone wandering thru the back yards of you and your neighbors at 1 a.m. in the rain, looking at the houses, you won’t be the least suspicious?And how often do you wander thru the back yards of the houses of strangers?
Police photo found here. GZ reenactment. Clearly, GZ’s nose is out of alignment in the video and there are butterfly bandages on the back of his head. GZ’s complexion is probably going to hide light bruising. The video shows GZ’s black eyes, indicating a broken nose.
@soccerdadforlife - Hurray you give TM credit for multitasking or you are now making a big mistake in saying this”E. Most likely, TM dropped his phone when he went to sucker-punch GZ. A phone is kind of in the way when you go to make a fist.”Suckerpunching a person while talking on the phone was a great trick. GZ went close to listen to what TM was saying on the phone……
@PPhilip - ”Hurray you give TM credit for multitasking or you are now making a big mistake in saying this”E. Most likely, TM dropped his phone when he went to sucker-punch GZ. A phone is kind of in the way when you go to make a fist.”"No mistake. Very simple. Martin talks on phone by edge of building, rushes towards GZ, says “You got a problem with me?…Now you do.”, drops phone, makes fist, hits GZ. You are very thick. Rachel Jeantel corroborated GZ’s story that Martin approached GZ, dumbass.”GZ went close to listen to what TM was saying on the phone……” Your lips are moving again.
@soccerdadforlife - I aint called you a liar and seriously doubt you even understand what sucker punch means:<table id=”entries”><tbody><tr><td class=”text” colspan=”2″ id=”entry_1377550″>Easily confused with a punch defined as a “bitch move” a true sucker punch is quite a bit more complex than a simple unanounced attack. It primarily involves a closed fist contacting the soft underbelly of a person (beneath the rib cage) at a high velocity, causing the ensuing force to press upward on the victim’s diaphram, leading to a sudden expulsion of air from the victim’s mouth and lungs. This opening blow leaves the victim open to various other attacks, often leading to what would be called “bitch moves” becuase of the defenseless nature of the victim.So if TM threw the first punch, at least GW did get a warning. What happened afterwards is pure speculation which every one is allowed to do since your GW did not elaborate on it on a lie detector test……
@PPhilip - If you quit repeating lies you hear from others and don’t make up your own lies, I’ll stop calling you a liar.”A sucker punch is a punch made without warning, allowing no time for preparation or defense on the part of the recipient.” A sucker punch is designed to take the victim by surprise and give the puncher a tremendous advantage in the fight. A surprise punch which breaks the nose is, in fact, a sucker punch, as is a punch which knocks the wind out of someone.”So if TM threw the first punch, at least GW did get a warning.” GW got a warning that he was in for an ass-whooping, lol. Being as GW was being assaulted by surprise, I guess it’s really remarkable that he doesn’t get all the facts right in the right order, lol.Rachel Jeantel said on Piers Morgan that TM was giving GZ some “whoop-ass.” She also stated that she and TM thought that GZ was a gay perv; we must conclude that TM was doing some gay-bashing, as it was in his mind.”What happened afterwards is pure speculation which every one is allowed to do since your GW did not elaborate on it on a lie detector test……”Actually, GZ had minor cuts on his head, supporting his claim that TM was bashing his head against the concrete. He also had grass stains on the back of his coat, supporting his story that he slid into the grass attempting to get away from TM. GZ had a bloody nose, supporting his claim that TM sucker-punched him in the nose. A witness corroborated GZ’s claim that TM was on top of GZ during the fight. No, this isn’t pure speculation. Your lips are moving again.